"Christianity bears a cost.........and it is awesome at the same time."
Amen.

Another inspiring column. Thank you!

Thank you Deb.

I agree, Christianity bears a cost, that's why they pass the basket. Tim, I get what you're saying in this essay, having come from a religious family. I saw a bumper sticker today "Religion should stay out of politics or be taxed" do you get where the rest of us are coming from? If you're Christian, CNN shouldn't matter.

Tim, "To hinder someones opinion or voice because of where they attend to their corporate worship is unconscionable" I don't know what you mean by that but it sounds like a mixture of church & state. Do you want everyone to join? Do you think Christianity belongs on Capitol Hill? Do you think politicians should be talking about religion and abortion? Why are religious people always pushing their agenda on others? I watch CNN all the time and I don't agree with half the stuff I hear. I also watch FOX just to see what the religious fanatics are up to. Politicians should do the job they were elected for without religious influence. People can make up their own minds only if they're not brainwashed from day one.

I don't think it's a question of either/or: either you're a politician or you believe in God. Politicians in the U.S. come to the table with all sorts of organized ways to 'handle' their spiritual life. Many and probably all of them are elected because of what they believe in. You can't to take God out of the person. To me, Obama and Rev. Wright had a strange relation all those many years, but apparently that wasn't an issue for many people.

paul: Why do you insist people of faith must be silent on matters of state? Is it only Christians you consider to be "brainwashed"?
Tim's column resonates with me. He is writing about messaging and the sacrifices required of Christians to be true to the life. Churches should be leading the way in this sacrifice. IMO, the relationship between church and state has been far too cozy for far too long.
Unlike government, religious organizations do not have the power of taxation or law to compel people to behave accordingly. In this country, they rely solely on free will. And this is a good thing.
Many Christian denominations have already watered down the message to make the Bible more palpable to the masses. CNN suggests Evangelicals should fall in line. I don't agree.

As science proves, it's only a matter of time until Christianity and other religions are collectively viewed as an archaic and entertaining belief. Just as we view Zeus, Medusa, and the mythology of star gods, moon gods, rain gods, etc... Religion has always been man made. It served a purpose in ancient history but as we evolve, our human intelligence inevitably moves forward, As time progresses, the virgin birth will (does) seem ludicrous, that's just one example of thousands. Romney and Ryan lost because they were too religious. Who would vote for a man who thinks "God" is on another planet? Ryan is SO deeply engrossed in blind faith he would be dangerous for an intelligent nation. The fist shaking scare tactics don't work anymore. You are NOT born with a religion, you are TAUGHT it from generations past. You can't stop progression. Please don't respond with threats of buring in hell, there's no such thing.

Do you consider Joel Osteen to be a sell-out because he conveys a positive, inspirational and welcoming Christian message? I'd much rather listen to him than read all your negativity and vitriole.

@paul..."Can a religious person comment on a matter of state without being religiously bias?"

Probably not. We are the sum of our experiences. Could an athiest comment on a matter of state without being influenced by thoughts shaped by his experiences? A Communist? A Buddhist? A child? An Hispanic old man?

Generally, what we prefer in a leader is someone similar to ourselves in attitude and beliefs and values. The Evangelists need not change. Nor do the Jews or Catholics.

Oh poor, poor sheep. You already have changed to fit the demographic. Perfect example- The New Testament. You all thought the Old Testament was "too scary" so you picked & chose the least scary things, added your own rubbish, & pushed out the New Testament. The Bible is fictitious. It's a fairy tale that went too far when Crusaders gave the ultimatum of either believe or die. The desperate converted, then forced it onto their children with new scare tactics, and it keep going like a disease. If you weren't told by someone at some point, to believe it or you're going to burn in hell, you most likely wouldn't believe it now. You were all brainwashed at a young age, so it's all you believe. You will do the same to your children, like a genetic disorder. Someone has to break the cycle. My generation has grown up at the same time as technology. Through new sources, such as the internet, we have more access to scientific research that is knocking down all your ridiculous beliefs like bowling pins. More young people are starting to question "What about fossils?" "What about proof of evolution?" "What about the sun not revolving around the earth?" Our computers have become the NEW Tree of Knowledge. Religion is being questioned at an all-time high, as we're getting smarter. If you refuse to change, then you are a bum leg. You are a burden that needs to be abolished. A disease that needs to be cured. But mostly, a people that need to either shut the hell up, or just die already.

Deb, What period of history do you consider to be the Dark Ages?

Yes, because I don't understand what any of the posts here have to do with the Dark Ages (a period that many, if not most, historians say never actually existed).

A short answer? Figuratively, dark ages are any extended period of time when the consensus is to declare war on free expression and possibilities. I think you can find comments from either side of the spiritual/secular equation that are pretty much closed off to the concept of free expression and possibilities.

BTW, I'm old. When I was in school Pluto was still a planet.

Emcee, it hasn't been called the Dark Ages by most historians (and no, this is not a liberal or conservative conspiracy) for some time. http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/151663/Dark-Ages

Emcee, the term hasn't fallen out of use because they don't like the name. It has fallen out of use because the idea that human progression stopped is not accurate.

Mr Hatch,

In America, we have religious freedom. I know you feel you are doing a duty by crying about anyone who offends you with their opinion that goes against what we hold in your heart. I find your column specious because you paint with this broad brush idea that an opinion on a cable network reflects the entire nation. It does not. Having come from a red state and seeing people who (IMHO) properly represent what the Bible and Jesus preach, I know that this wonderful country is hardly in danger of forcing anybody with religious beliefs to change, message, opinion, or otherwise. My religious beliefs are my own as yours are and any other person. You are exercising some of that freedom and message here. Christianity is alive and well in this country no matter how much you cry it isn't. Megachurches, preachers on tv, no taxes for religious organizations, etc. belay your whining about "changing your message". Your real message is clear: The country is bad because people you or people you feel share your belief don't get your way in this election. That's why the founders didn't declare a national religion.That's why there is a separation between church and state. People of your ilk have done every thing they can to blur that but the national debate continues on that. You don't have to change your message but nobody has to choose accept it the way you offer it. That's freedom in the USA. Get used to it again.
Do you recall what a Pharisee is in the Bible? Check your mirror!

Christianity is the dominant religion in the USA. And Christians are far from being persecuted in the US. Christians are not victims.
We need the voices of a many different kinds of Christians as well as those of other religions and also non-theists. I support a "wall" of "separation" between the "Garden of the church" and the sordidness of the state/commerce. That's what

Roger Williams said in the early 1600s, some 140 years before Madison and Jefferson. Have you ever been to the National Park for Roger Williams. I'm as radical as he is in saying that the evangelical right has been suborned and deflected from their work by the grasping grabbing overreach for power exemplified by people like Rick Santorum (who's Catholic) and Rick Perry, governor of Texas, who doesn't want students in his state to learn critical thinking skills.

Tim, I think you'll agree that there is no one way of being a Christian. Or maybe you are. To me there is no one way to be a Christian identity. Instead there are Christianities. And that includes liberal Christians and Christian churches. They don't share your views on many issues I would suspect. What are your views on immigrants, LGBTQ persons, women's rights to comprehensive reproductive health care??

Gretchen what is your view on tollerence toward Christians (the kind that believe in God) that have values and beliefs different than yours?

many many Christians want separation of church and state, and have throughout American history. Check out Americans United for Separation of Church and State, which is headed by Christian minister, Rev. Barry Lynn. www.au.org

"Every religion emphasizes human improvement, love, respect for others, sharing other people's suffering. On these lines every religion had more or less the same viewpoint and the same goal." The Dalai Lama

Yet treating others with respect and equality does not require any religious belief. Non-theistic ethical and philosophic systems, like Humanism and Ethical Culture, believe in equality, fairness, and respect for others. While all belief systems have differences, all major religions, ethical systems, and philosophies agree that each person should treat others as they would themselves. Almost all of these groups have passages in their holy texts, or writings of their leaders, which promote this Ethic of Reciprocity. The most commonly known version in North America is the Golden Rule of Christianity. It is often expressed as "Do onto others as you would wish them do onto you." Or in "natural law": that "no man require to reserve to himself any right, which he is not content should be reserved to every one of the rest".

Not only is refusing to treat others as you would yourself a violation of every major ethical belief system, it is a violation of the promise of equality in the founding documents and required by the 5th and 14th amendments.

Legal discrimination stigmatizes, dehumanizes, and causes needless harm, while treating others equally under the law harms no one.

The Jewish form of the Golden Rule is do not do to others that you have found to be intolerant to you. That is harder. I like the Ethical Culture Society and religious Humanists, who live in a religious congregation, doing good, serving others, all without any recourse to the supernatural. Let's all keep to our own beliefs or non-belief and all get along. After all freedom of religion works because no one denomination predominates. Some of the early colonies, Massachusetts included, had an establishment church--and that one was close to a theocracy. As Roger Williams found out.

My son used to say that the best form of the Golden Rule is to do unto others what they would have you do unto them -- in other words, don't assume you know based on your own likes and dislikes, but instead ask. It means being other-centered for the other's sake, which is the same as agape, sometimes described as God's love operating in the human heart.

thanks Carol. Your son is very wise.