so once again, in the name of the all powerful concept of "safety" Attleboro has decided to help kill something that actually brought a little life to downtown. Nice work folks. I hope the farmer's market does just pack up and move to a town that actually wants to have good things happen inside its borders. Attleboro can now continue its campaign to destroy its history and replace it with absolutely nothing of value.

What? How is there any traffic issue, its a parking lot, people park in it. The market is distinctly seperated with cones. This decision will kill the farmers market because people looking to go will be looking to pull into the market only to be waived on by an officer. It's interesting that multiple blocks of downtown can be closed down for several hours at a time for special events but the use of an EMPTY parking lot in a central location is an issue. Shame on the library trustees and shame on the city for letting the library dictate how a municipal lot is used.

"I can't think of any motion for this council that would be more forceful to push the farmers market to a surrounding town," Conti said. "I will not support this motion because it's basically booting the number one farmers market in Massachusetts out of Attleboro."

Could be a first! A counselor who possesses both brains and courage simultaneously.

"To have children and patrons and all these farmers and people selling vegetables and to have 28 to 30 cars parking adjacent to them, it just doesn't seem safe to me," Denlea said.
Answer me this Ms Denlea: Are you now going to support an ordinance requiring Stop & Shop, Shaws, Seabras et al to hire off duty cops. There are lot more cars around "children and patrons" there than at the farmers market. Gasp, there may even be "all these farmers and people" in the same parking lot. News Flash for Ms Denlea farmers are people and they vote. Oh and I'm quite sure they and everyone else are "paying more attention because "It's all very clear."

I would like to thank council member Denlea for bringing to light the dangers of parking lots. I have taken my kids to the library for years, never thinking twice that by parking a car and walking through a parking lot I was putting them in harms way. In the future I will have to seriously reconsider parking in the library parking lot or any parking lot for that matter because now I have become aware it is simply not safe.

And then to add the fact that there could potentially be people selling vegetables next to parked cars? Wow, its like a mine field. Parents of Attleboro, we must protect our children from these Vegetables Sellers and all these Parked Cars.

All this time, it was the drug dealers and child molestors I was worried about, when I should be worried about the farmers, patrons of the farmers market, and fresh vegetable dealers. It is not busy intersections, or train tracks I should avoid, it is parking lots with like 28-30 parked cars.

Thank you for bringing these serious safety concerns to my attention. From now on, I will be on constant vigil to avoid parked cars, and anyone looking to sell me some locally grown produce.

With all due respect to all of the council members, last nights meeting ran in circles. I was there for an hour and a half, and frankly, during that time, nothing was accomplished whatsoever. As it was mentioned many times last night they "have been working on this for over a month now." Multiple times the term "Point of order" (referring to Roberts rules of order) was used, especially when an amendment did not work in a certain councilor's favor. At times, councilor did not understand what was going on, and rude comments by their fellow committee members were completely necessary. The argumentativeness of the councilor's truly showed at last night's meeting. The consensus around Attleboro is that both the Library and the Farmers Market are acting childish. This should not have been as large of an issue as it is. The councilor's who have worked on this non-stop for the past few weeks, have truly put there heart an soul into it. I applaud Councilors DiLisio and Cooper for being the members of the sub-committee, to remain publically unbiased through this entire process. The work of the committee shows in the headway they have made, however the progress hit a wall once it was the municipal council's turn to vote. I completely understand the public safety issues at hand, but I only hope that their are auxiliary officers willing to participate, because not only do people want it to, but the downtown are needs the farmers market needs to stay here!

another BRILLIANT move by the City Council, thank GOD that there are no other safety concerns in the city!

Such an extreme disappointment. Seems we are our worst enemy. It gets to a point where the supporters, the worker bees behind the scene become exhausted from opposition and give up. THIS is what we choose to finally become concerned for safety? really? If you are going to raise my taxes, show me something! Give us a reason to be proud of our city! If we're going to pay the same taxes as North Attleboro give us what they have, instead of embarrassment. So disgusted....

I want a farmers market here. And as much as I hate to say this. parking lots ARE unsafe. I commute to work by bicycle, and I go grocery shopping by bicycle also. Every time I go I see people backing out of spots without looking, usually on their cell phones, and not even coming to a stop when they get to the end of the row, like they are an emergency vehicle with their lights flashing. Not to mention the people who pull out in front of ambulances! I feel we need to start policing ourselves and each other. If we are unable to have enough sense and strength to drive according to the rules and good sense, then we won't have the things that benefit us, like a farmers market.

I agree that parking lots are unsafe. However, I feel like it is a poor argument, because you can make an argument against anything for fear of safety.
Parking lots are unsafe, riding your bike is unsafe, walking across the street is unsafe.

The issue is about the Farmer Market using that space, and they either want it there or they don't want it there. Saying the space is unsafe is a null argument in my book because you can make that argument about any of the 10 potential spaces in Attleboro. Yes Parking Lots can be unsafe, that being said, do you want the farmers market using that space or don't you. That is the issue, and they made it clear they don't want the farmers market on that space.

I have noticed that the farmer's market admits that it is just barely self sustaining. It occurs to me that although many favor it's existance, they do not patronize it. I suppose it is time to "put your money where yor mouth is". Alternatively, we have to admit it is just an uneconomic "decoration".

Here we go again...whenever something new, different or successful comes to Attleboro, its always the same. I would also add to that list, that if its not the "right person's"idea.
Hysteria reigns. The old guard and in this case, the "new" old guard suits up into their respective battle-wear and prepares to drag us all back into the dark ages.
When the shelter volunteers first started their good work at our shelter, the shouts of "its dangerous" began. A healthy wetland ordinance was "dangerous" to homeowners. The hiring of Paramedics only was "dangerous" because they might not be relatives, and therefore not care about the people of Attleboro. Now, the Farmers Market is dangerous. The public safety card is a safe hand to deal, isnt it?
If I were a member of the Farmers Market I would have felt so degraded during the discussion last nite. They have been treated like the unwelcome relatives - absolutely awful - shameful! Even more shameful was Mr DiLisio calling into question Mr. Conti's right to participate in the discussion - how humiliting.
Too many members of this council are caught up in party-affiliations and/or keeping Attleboro, just the way it is.. A perfect example of "no good deed goes unpunished" Only in Attleboro would a Farmers Market be found to be "a danger" to society!

Safety? The city didn't seem concerned back in January with the safety aspect of a four lane highway running through the middle of a car dealership in south attleboro.

Those same safety concerns are driving the need for our schools PTO's to stop having fundraisers that sell things like cookies (that's unhealthy) and for non-profits like the Girl Scouts to have to hire BOTH Police and Fire details to hold a dance for the girls and an adult of their choice, or for our PTO's to do the same for family events. Those kindergarten kids, they're the ones to look out for.

Perhaps that is why we're having such a difficult time finding businesses to give it a go in downtown. It's too dangerous to park in a municipal lot and walk around. You would even have to cross the street!!!

@Tisiphone - My understanding is that the market does not get a take of the sales. The vendors pay the AFM to have a table there - that is where they get their funds.

Automobiles should be banned from downtown.

What a clown show. Watching the City Council on the Farmer's Market issue is like watching a monkey humping a football. How can they screw up such a good thing?

Were there any instances during the course of last year's farmers market that warrant such concern over safety in a parking lot? I attended farmers market almost every weekend and never witnessed one car vs pedestrian incident.

I understand the library's concern over parking availability for library patrons in September and October but have any library patrons actually come forward to complain about lack of parking on a Saturday in September or October?

Finally something good comes to the city and the city finds a way to squash it. I'm glad my taxes were spent making all the sidewalks look so pretty. The brick borders, the newly planted trees and fancy light posts look so nice in front of all the run down storefronts and empty buildings on Union St.

Absolutely pathetic, three hours and 15 votes spent discouraging visitors to the city. So, city leaders, what are you doing to bring people to the downtown area?

A sad day for Attleboro. It should be stated that the AFM set up at least 2 meetings with the library to discuss this and the invitations were declined. No one bad guy here but the council made it clear their opinion on supporting small business. In addition safety or some other reason...if the market was wanted it would have been worked out. In addition a councilor suggested ..."there must be at least 10 locations I can think of for this market..." unfortunatley all 10 and then some were investigated and either were rejected by the city or the cost for taxes and insurance on a private lot would make that choice out of the question too. "Why can't we all just get along" when it comes to a good thing for downtown...clearly because the city doesn't want it.

I was amused when watching last night's council meeting. Spending hours going over the use of a parking lot? The Farmers market is a good idea and I'm glad that it is expanding. The councilor who said it best and knows the impact on our business if the market leaves is councilor Richard Conti who said that he would not support the Denela ammendment because it will boot the market from Attleboro. It seems to me that this special committee that was formed to find a solution to the farmers market/library feud should be looking to find an alternative location for the market. My suggestion is to consider using the Balfour Riverwalk park for the farmers market location. The lot near the library could be used for vendors who need to park their vehicles after unloading equipment for the market, handicapped patrons who wish to visit the market, and the rest of the lot can be used for library patrons. The parking lot on the other side of the Balfour Riverwalk park could be used for general parking for the farmers market in addition, market patrons could also use the parking garage accross from the YMCA. The Balfour Riverwalk park is in a central location in downtown and makes perfect sense for the market and I wonder if anyone on the city council has thought about this.

Adam,
I agree that "Too much foot traffic" is a lame excuse for not allowing the market to be there. Safety of the grass?? Since when is walking on grass harmful??? Shame on the council for rejecting the proposal based on such a silly and lame idea. Maybe this current council should and I would highly urge them to review the Balfour Riverwalk as a proposed site. Again, as I said the riverwalk is a perfect location for the market.

Aren't there other options? Why not try the high school parking lot or some other location that's not filled on a Saturday?

I see the usual negativity and bashing away at the Library, and now the City Councilors who got compared to women!!! Can you guys (Tizzy) hear yourself, how sexist that is. Your macho swagger is showing. Testosterone says you can't look after public safety?? Who died and made you pope of the world? Did you contact the Attleboro Farmer's Market or Mr. Conti or the other City Councilor and offer your help??? No, I imagine not. Armchair 'executive critics' and bashers and blamers just want to complain and feel superior to the people who are trying to make it work, but are temporarily stymied.
Did you ever hear the phrase, "it ain't over till it's over." There has got to be a way to provide a place for the FM. I never liked that site. It's too small and parking is tight. Many people parked elsewhere. As the FM grows it's bound to need a larger site. Plus it's boiling hot in the full sun some days. You got to think of the elders, too. A place with some shade wouldn't be amiss. And that's not masculine or feminine. That's just caring about making it a good time for everyone.

Jonathan Weydt, the Ward 4 City Councilor. has filed for Reconsideration of Vote - the vote that was taken last nite regarding the Farmers Market! Good for him!!! The actual filing is meeting resistance from the usual suspects. This filing is the right of every city council member - lets not be trying to re- write the rules when it comes to the Farmers Market....If you care about this issue - call your city councilor - support Mr Weydt's Reconsideration. Remind your Representative that he/she works for YOU. YOU pay their stipend, and in many cases, their health insurance and their pension. You do so because they work to represent you - not just at election time. Everyone here says that they support the Farmers Market - make those calls and voice your opinion - if you dont, you shouldnt complain.
Thank-you, Councilor Weydt, for hearing your constituants,

There seems to be little understanding of "safety". Please see my post on the "police power" and "public safety". What it boils down to is if you want to achieve a result without a good reason, you claim "safety". Since "safety" is not quantifiable, few courts will substitute their judgment for that of a local authority.

As I mentioned, "safety" is the only justification for zoning. It long ago reached the point where Zoning was used to protect property values in Massachusetts (this is not related to public safety and is not a legitimate government function). The legislature had to a pass an "anti Snob zoning" law.

Adam Tellier,

Your example sounds more plausible than too much foot traffic. My question though is this: Is the farmers market really a form of solicitation? The people who attend the market aren't being forced into buying anything and the farmers at the market aren't using any solicitation tactics, strong or otherwise. The fact of the matter is that it's a person's own choosing if someone wants to buy something at the farmers market. With that being said, in theory, the farmers market wouldn't be breaking any city ordinances. In my opinion the real reason that the council denied the use of the riverwalk for the market is plain old politics as usual. In my humble opinion, the current members of the council should seriously consider the balfour riverwalk as a viable location for the market, It's the best location for the event.

According to these comments, I wonder how many of the people commenting here offered options. It seems like the AFM and their followers are as stubborn as the other side of the controversy. Plus, it also seems if they were the only people in Attleboro that vote… It's time for some objectivity!

As far as I know, the AFM were offered options that they did not want. I support farmer markets around New England but let's not loose perspective that this is a private business, not a government agency, and that the parking lot is city owned. The people that want to buy at a farmers market will go wherever it is located. The market can be set up in a lot of places, the library can not. Just a thought...

Adam,

If indeed that is the case, according to the ordinance, then how come there have been other events at locations such as Capron Park in which the sale of items (food, etc) have occured. It seems that the city is playing politics with this particular event (The Farmers Market) If the city of Attleboro and the powers that be really wanted the farmers market to be here, they would do everything to make that happen. I just hope that there could be a way to find a good location within the downtown area.

I looked up the ordinance relied on "u. Sell, or offer for sale, except at the zoo gift shop and concession stands, any merchandise, article, or
articles whatsoever, or to practice, carry on, conduct or solicit any trade, occupations, business, or profession."

Well, the solution is both simple and obvious, there is already an exemption for the ZOo gift shop and the concession stand. Obviously, the city needs to "wet its beak". The City needs to be offered a "piece of the action". Maybe that is what the "details" are all about. Offer plenty of "details" and you don't have to worry so much about salaries. Every year the Boston Globe publishes the highest paid policemen. The "Chief" is usualy well down the list, while patrolmen exceed $150,000.

Leave it to our council to screw up something sooo simple

Adam,
Several years ago, there was an event held at Capron Park in which food such as hot dogs and sodas were sold and there was some sort of a music group playing there too and maybe that was years before the ordinance went into effect I don't know. The food wasn't sold at the Zoo concession stand either. It seems that the city could do something such as grant a waiver of the ordinance so the farmers market can use a location such as Balfour river walk or Capron park.

When discussions such as the City Council meeting break down into foolish and hot headed statements, it is reasonable to assume that the real causes for conflict are not being mentioned. I doubt that "safety" was the real issue, or that the city ordinance was ever even considered. There must be more.

Adam,

To answer your question, no this particular event was not run by the city. I do remember that there was some church group involved and they held something at Capron Park around June maybe about six or seven years ago and they sold food there. Again, this might have happened before this ordinance was even considered by the council, I don't know though.

If you think a Framer's Market is a problem, try opening a push cart hot dog stand in Attleboro. Then you will really learn about problems.

There was one at the Attleboro - North Attleboro border, is it Toner Blvd? He was finally driven out. If I recall correctly, the problem was not providing a bathroom. It was just a push cart, similar to what you see on every street corner in Manhattan. How do New Yorkers survive without a bathroom on every pushcart?

It is part of "the way" in Massachusetts. We have stacked regulation on top of regulation but it is seldom seen by your "average citizen". Ask anyone who tried to add a deck to their house and found that the backyard was "wetlands".

The library missed a golden opportunity to jump in and set up a tent and draw interest into their facility. Given their on-line competition (Amazon and Borders) and use of popular Kindles, etc, they are losing an audience. Have a weekly used book sale, showcase local authors, live story time for kids, pair a book theme with a cooking demonstration using local produce.... The library blew it. When else do they have the opportunity to gather that many people in their own yard?

True that Lisa!

It just seems anything good that comes to Attleboro is destroyed. The libray and market should be able to co-exist. I am appauled that our city leaders act like such childern.
Quite frankly, it is absurd to require a police detail. Before long I will be required by law to have my owm personal body guard to protect me, mif I don't want to bothing ( looking both ways) before crossing a street....as for the library....make the most of the added customers you might have.........to have the market move to another community would be a shame, but typical of how business goes in Attleboro

White Alligator for Zoo 2 month rental $8000, Police Details for Farmers Market approx $5760, City Council-Library-Farmers Market "Safety" Debate and plan- PRICELESS!

Progressive Liberals on the city council taking care of their Police Union brothers to the detriment to local business. I have been to the Farmers Market many times and never felt like the public was in danger. City Council members need to go get real jobs.